On October 3 2007, Direct-MS (www.direct-ms.org ), sponsored a public presentation by Dr. Loren Cordain of Colorado State University on the topic of “The Paleo Diet and Multiple Sclerosis” (en français “Le régime Paléolithique et la Sclérose en plaques”). Dr Cordain is a leading researcher in the field of the roles that various nutritional factors play in chronic diseases such as MS. A webcast of Dr Cordain’s presentation is on the website www.direct-ms.org and I invite you to watch it in the comfort of your home (High resolution slides). I also recommend going to Dr Cordain’s websites at WWW.THEPALEODIET.COM and http as They contain a wealth of valuable information on nutrition and health. A good and clear summary of the presentation done by Ashton Embry can be found at the following address: www.msrc.co.uk There is also a very interesting interview with Dr Loren Cordain by Robert Crayhon: chetday.com A great 45 minutes audio interview with Dr. Cordain: www.leannesslifestyle.com A list of all the publications related to Dr. Cordain’s work: unjobs.org Origins and evolutions of the western diet:Health implications for the 21st Century www.visioninstitute.optometry.net Implementing of the paleo diet www.visioninstitute.optometry.net Hyperinsulinemic diseases of civilisation: more than just the metabolic syndrome www.visioninstitute.optometry.net An evolutionary analysis of the etiology and pathogenesis of juvenile onset myopia www.visioninstitute.optometry.net
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@Chrisisms The amino acid profile of vegetables is not at all comparable to meat (already constructed muscle). For example, you could eat 100 grams of soy protein, but only get a few complete grams of protein because soy like most vegetables is deplete in methionine. Meat has just the right amount. Sure you could add some seasame seeds or something and pop some vitamin B12, but I doubt early man was able to do this. Early man ate meat AND vegetables.
Very very useful info. thanks. I’ve tried raw vegan which was good, but i think paleo is optimal.
“Human milk has the lowest protein concentration (about 7% of energy) of any primate milk that has been studied. In general, it appears that primates produce small daily amounts of a relatively dilute milk (Oftedal 1984). Thus the protein and energy demands of lactation are probably low for primates by comparison to the demands experienced by many other mammals.
J Agric Food Chem. 2008 Sep 24;56(18):8418-26.
‘cellular antioxidant activity, total phenolic contents, and oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC) values of 25 fruits commonly consumed in the US. Pomegranate and berries (wild blueberry, blackberry, raspberry, and blueberry) had the highest CAA values, whereas banana and melons had the lowest. Increasing fruit consumption is a logical strategy to increase antioxidant intake and decrease oxidative stress and may lead to reduced risk of cancer.
Animal proteins contain more sulfurous amino acids than vegetable proteins. Protons resulting from the degradation of sulfurous amino acids are a major source of acid. A continuous excess of acid promotes the demineralization of the bones, since H+ ions bind to phosphate ions during formation of hydrogen phosphate.
1) Eur J Nutr 2001 Oct; 40(5): 200-13
2) Am J Clin Nutr 2001 Jan; 73(1): 118-22
3) Osteoporos Int 2001; 12(6): 493-9
Again: I am asking you WHAT IS ENOUGH? Either answer the question or just drop this whole thing. Can you do that one simple thing? Answer the question? Or do you simply not have an answer?
No, I would be asking you a question. You would be avoiding answering it. I don’t need to use science to ASK a question. You merely need to answer it. Again, what is “more than enough protein”? Unless you are actually going to answer that question, you may as well stop posting.
‘My question is: What is more than enough’
So this entire time you have claimed there is not enough, iron, protein, etc in plant based diets, yet u really are just making it up and u do NOT know how much of these things you need?
In fact there is no shortage of iron, protein, etc in fruit/leafy greens/sprouts from rich soil.
‘I would be looking for the amount of protein necessary to maintain good health’
You ‘WOULD BE’ if you weren’t too busy trying to win an argument/defiantly.
But as the case is; you are merely reacting to every point without using ANY science or experience.
u have asked NO ‘honest question’ and you REFUSE to answer questions after questions have been answered for you.
Until you do your homework, you’re not even arguing yet. You’re just having a fit/cursing.
My question is: What is more than enough, or mor accurately: What is “enough”?
I would be looking for the amount of protein necessary to maintain good health. And you did NOT answer the questions. All you did was avoid answering my questions and say “You don’t know what you are takling about”. I asked you numerous times. There may be nothing arrogant about the diet but there is about someone who avoids answering an honest question and goes: “You know nothing!”……for you to say “more than enough” there must be a baseline to allow you to make that claim.
Again, HOW MUCH PROTEIN ARE YOU LOOKING FOR? Because ALL the protein needed is easily obtained in fruits/leafy greens and sprouts give you more than enough. EVERY question you’ve asked has been answered. Yet all you can do is jump from topic to topic, maintaining your defiant attitude, cursing and name calling, all while you have NO exclusionary diet experience. There is NOTHING ‘arrogant’ about a humble/sustainable, fruit based diet according to human genetic instructions.
Instead of being such a pompous jackass why don’t you just answer the question? You keep telling me how I am skirting the issue and jumping from topic to topic, but YOU ARE NOT ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. I will ask again: How much protein is required? I didn;t realise that asking what an adequate amount of Protein is or that it was a meaningless question. So please answer the question. And do it without being a dick if you can.
‘YOU tell me what is adequate for good health’
Organic, raw fruit, sprouts, leafy greens from rich soil.
Bring some background understanding of the issues or some dietary experience and NUMBERS before you bounce around from topic to topic. u have no idea what you are talking about… u don’t even know how much protein humans require, or iron, or anything.
Ok, then YOU tell me what is adequate for good health, and then answer the question.
‘Where do we get adequate dietary protein’
If you want specific answers, you have to ask specific questions. This is very basic stuff but I’ll use you as an example for others anyway. To begin, you need to describe ‘adequate’. Please use numbers as that is what science relies on, not your feelings. You are asking meaningless questions. You have to determine the amount of protein that is adequate. Please provide a reason for an unspecified amount of protein you are asking for.
Again you did not answer my question: Where do we get adequate dietary protien if not from animal sources? And for the record you said: “there is no Iron shortage”. I took that to be your answer to my question, since you did not address it directly.
‘where do they get adequate amounts of protein’
Boy you’ve just gotten a crash course in diabetes, iron and now protein without refuting any points, yet maintaining your omniconfused stance on meat consumption for humans. For the record, there is NO nutritional imperative for meat. Now for more specifics… There is NO shortage of protein, iron or air.
u really are flying blind aren’t you? Do you have ANY guess how much protein is in human breast milk? And compared to related species?
If humans are frugivores where do they get adequate amounts of protein? Fruit may digest “best”, but what does that mean? Most easily? Ok, then what is the benefit of digesting fruit best? We still need protein, even if fruit does digest “better’ than meat. And fruit contains little to no protein.
You’re just bouncing around without any facts. Nobody said ‘Vegans do not get iron deficient and are never forced to supplement’
Your ‘force/never’ daydreams have NOTHING to do with biochemically compatible diets. Humans are frugivores. ‘Vegan’ ‘omnivore’ ‘vegetarian’ are NOT scientific classifications for humans, who digest fruit best.
I already told you some vegans eat poor diets too. You are arguing with yourself and losing unless you can start quoting and posting inline comments.
Just because u know some vegans who don’t eat well doesn’t mean fruit and lettuce doesnt’ supply all the iron needed for a natural human who doesn’t assault his digestive system with processed food from depleted soil, then cooks it and covers it in bug spray.
Consuming more vitamin C, raises the absorption of iron.
Really? Vegans do not get iron deficient and are never forced to supplement?
Raw red meat contains high levels of oxymyoglobin and deoxymyoglobin and oxyhemoglobin and deoxyhemoglobin and cytochromes..Cooked and processed meat contain hemichromes and hemochromes. After being eaten heme proteins are hydrolyzed to amino acids and peptides and the heme group which is coordinated with strong ligands..decreasing the amount of dietary red meat will limit the level of oxidative catalysts in the tissues of the body. Med Hypotheses. 2007;68(3):562-4.
There is nor iron shortage.
You didn’t answer my question.
In health science and most things in life there is not much proof. I can’t even prove you want to know if there is proof. So a favorite tactic by obfuscatists is to demand black and white “proof”. But in the real world, science provides evidence either for or against what is being tested. Repeatedly, studies show linear/positive/direct/indirect correlations w/meat and w/biological plausibility (that means mechanisms of action described) for virtually all degenerative diseases.